Monkey Island hasn't even been out a week yet, and already a storm's brewing over the game's choppy framerate. When a fan complained on the Telltale Games forums about the Wii versions' framerate, a Telltale programmer went on record to say:
..The Wii is just not a powerful console. An iPhone is much more powerful than a Wii, even.
Later on this programmer was accused of using "strong words" to which he replied:
I stand by them. The Wii and DS are extremely underpowered and their popularity doesn't remove the hardware limitations.
In addition, he commented that he couldn't think of a Wii console game that was free from lag, and blamed the lack of RAM compared to an iPhone to be the biggest issue.
When you've got great games on WiiWare like My Life as a King / Dark Lord, LostWinds, and Onslaught that seem to run without issues, does he make a good point? Or is he blaming something other than just a poor port of a PC game? In any case, it sounds like a war's brewing!
[source telltalegames.com]
Comments 128
I'd say they've lost a fan, but, well, do they have fans?
The iPhone2WiiConv.exe didn´t work to well. Maybe you should put some effort in your code. Also... iPhone doesn´t have half the res as the Wii.
I got my pitchfork!
Ive heard other stories that When it comes to ports, Telltale has done some crappy ones. They need to do a better job next time. They shouldn't blame the Wii.
You see, with these angry mobs, someone always goes "Get your pitchforks!" which everyone does. But they always forget torches!
I make a conformable living off this. So when next time you forget your torch for your angry mob, remember to go to "ZERO's Torch Emporium" remember, that's "ZERO's Torch Emporium!"
And have a great time rioting!
URL link fail^. Thought I'd letcha know.
It's pointless to compare most hardware specs as the architectures and interfaces are completely different. True, the Wii has practically no main memory by today's standards, but that shouldn't be a bottleneck for a game like Tales of Monkey Island.
The iPhone does have a lower resolution and might require less processing time for input than the Wii, but I still think Tales of Monkey Island should easily run on the Wii without any kind of lag. It's probably just a matter of software optimization, which costs time and money.
Instead of investing time, money and effort (dare I even mention the possibility of hiring more talented programmers?) they put out a less-than-optimal product and proceed to trash the hardware.
"The Wii and DS are extremely underpowered and their popularity doesn't remove the hardware limitations."
this is such a dumb thing to say, surely their popularity proves you don't need power to be successful... it's a moot point
Yea I commented in that thread. Screw 'em. Not buying the PC version of Monkey Island, or any TellTale game in the future. It's not like the Wii's hardware changed during their development, they chose to release an inferior product.
I love Monkey Island and was sad to see that they said this. I'll be getting it on WiiWare just because I love the series.
But yeah, I doubt Mario Galaxy would run on an iPhone
He's gonna be fired. I'm calling it.
Don't take the content of the message too seriously, its just fanboyish insult. I'm worried of the tone though. I'm worried that the guy is insulting a console and its fans, when game media(that are eager to ruin anything on Wii. Seems this will be one more ruin.) made such a big deal of their coding skills. He is blowing a little too hard on my flickering hope of favourite genre resurrecting on Wii.
@TwilightV
Well he is already flamed to ashes. And you can't make a fire from ashes.
@DaVeMaN99: LOL
It's true!
http://www.mobileorchard.com/a-huge-leap-forward-graphics-on-the-iphone-3gs/
For whatever reason the problem exists, I have been noticing framerate issues with the WiiWare version. Worse, the damn thing froze up on my completely earlier today! I would've gotten it on PC if I had one to play it on...
Silly comment... Good developers work with the hardware capabilities, its all relative anyway - according to this fellow's logic we might assume no worthwhile games are ever going to get made, as hardware cannot reach a point of definative MAX POWER. Back in the day programmers could port a excellent game like Buggy boy to the C64 and still make it a great game to play!
Games don't lag on Wii if you make them right.
Oh, and lol at the Stephen Colbert pic!
We also had a similar news on IGN. Boy there was a fight (And yes, I was involved.). TellTale is being lazy and have no right to call IPhone a more powerful gaming system then the Wii. Trust Sega, they know for the fact that the IPhone can't even run a PS2 game.
I could get them blaming the Wii for not releasing it at all. However, they did release it. It's their own fault and if they won't stand by the "quality" of their products, and try backpeddling once paying customers voice concern, I won't support that. I wouldn't doubt if Yare was let go from the TTG team for this.
Legendo and other developers have managed to create something enjoyable from the same restrictions.
PhoenixSage has joined the riot.
Heh, I love a good riot. Pitchforks are fun! As are torches, but I'm fresh out. I'll have to see whether or not I can make it to my local ZERO's Torch Emporium to pick one up. That's ZERO's Torch Emporium, folks, now where's my five bucks?
But seriously, the iPhone is more powerful than the Wii? You've got to be kidding me. After playing games like Super Mario Galaxy I find that incredibly ludicrous. Good luck insulting the Wii and then expecting a download, Telltale. I certainly won't be pitching in, unless it's with my pitchfork. (groans)
@Ricardo: couldn't help myself, I'm a huge Colbert fan . He did state however that they're trying to fix the frame rate issues for Episode 2. Though as frustrated as he is, I personally don't think he had the right to make half the comments he did.
He has a point though. 88MB of RAM in this day and age is absolutely pathetic, however I would blame the issues Monkey Island had on WiiWare on the size limitation.
If WiiWare size limits wasn't set at 40MB, not as much horsepower would be needed to decompress and run programming (I mean this game is 300MB for PC, down to 40MB that's a lot of squishing!)
I think the tone of the message was uncalled for, and is just clearly frustrated with things, but the Wii does have some stupid limits, but I think it's the limits that NIntendo puts on things more then the hardware itself that's stupid.
@ BrickleBrack: whos the loser who would play video games on their iPhones in the first place?
You know what? These guys keep giving me more and more reasons not to support them. If they're too lazy to optimize their graphics engine, then they sure as hell ain't getting my money.
Super Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, and even Punch-Out!! all look way better than Monkey Island, and on top of that they run at a steady 60 frames per second.
It’s not totally the Wii’s fault. Most of the programmers out there are just lazy
I was thinking about this today, and I think It’s possible to create something that looks like Killzone 2 on the Wii. Sure, the Wii is way less powerful than the PS3 and Xbox360. But that doesn’t mean you can’t get the games to look good. You just need to step it up and really push the machine. Have some pride as a programmer!
It’s a bolt statement to make, I realize. But I’m seriously considering building a 3d engine for the Wii after I finish my Flipper Dsi-ware project.
@ 24 I guess the answer is Billions of people.
An iPhone is no Wii. But it is interesting to talk about.
Hardy83 is right - and so is the telltale guy commenting on the forums. Why does everyone get their backs up when someone states a fact? The issue is the compression needed to get the game on Wiiware, and the huge decompression that needs to happen at runtime.
Perhaps a disc release like Sam & Max would have worked better than Wiiware, so there wouldn't be the filesize limits. Sure Super Mario Galaxy works wonderfully, it's not on Wiiware.
Telltale love the Wii, and I'm looking forward to the PAL release of Mokey Island Ep 1 very much. Don't take a single programmer stating a fact as a personal insult. Hopefully Nintendo will relax the filesize limits now that the SD card is used, and they hear the problems devs are having getting 3D games with hi-res textures and hi-poly models plus hundreds of lines of dialogue on the Wiiware service.
The new iPhone has serious power I dont think you guys realize that. And its sold way more games/apps than Nintendo has. The Wii and DS are underpowered system and we all know it, Nintendo doesnt need powerful systems to make great games.
@Pixelman :"Super Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, and even Punch-Out!! all look way better than Monkey Island, and on top of that they run at a steady 60 frames per second."
They're all disc based games, so of course they do, and there's probably less dialogue in all of those 3 games combined than in one Monkey Island wiiware episode. Stop comparing apples with oranges.
Agreed with jp-30 and slapshot82.
Why is Wiis memory pathetic? Do you know how much memory a console needs? Wii has over twice the memory that the GameCube has and its much faster. GameCube has beautiful games and we all know that! Put things in perspective man. Wii doesn't have to have as much memory as it HD-ready competitors!
To add to #30. jp-30
Nintendo has time and money to make the best and most awesome games. It's hard for normal developers to do this because making video games cost SO much!
@jp-30. It's not an issue of the Wii being so "underpowered". it's the fact that they were determined to release a game for it. When the game didn't perform properly their response was "Oh, yeah that's what you get for trying to run it on an inferior system. Thanks for the money, suckas!" The Wii's hardware did not change during their development and port of the game. They knew what it was capable of the entire time, and should have tested their own product if they are proud of what they make.
They are blaming the customer, and not themselves for releasing an inferior product. Like I said earlier, they can only blame the Wii for not being able to run it, and saying the Wii won't see it at all. As it stands, I fully blame them, and their comments after releasing it.
See, now, if I tried running the PC version of Monkey Island on my netbook it would be my own fault. As that is underpowered and they didn't develop the game with it in mind.
Nintendo made there systems smaller to have a lower more competive price compared to the 360/PS3. If Nintendo goes HD your goin to have a $350-450 console wich for some is awesome but alot of Nintendo products are owned by children and parents generally are NOT goin to pay that for there kids. That is why Wii is underpowered. IF you want HD graphics and excellent framerate well there are systems out there for you but your goin to pay for what you get. Nintendo is pure gold but to stay that way they have to make money and HD sytems cost more money. Simple as that.
I'm still waiting for the PAL release so I can play it for myself, but there are a lot of people on the TTG forums who say the game plays pretty well. So I hope all of you who are saying the port is terrible have actually, you know, played it rather than taken the comments of a few of the loudest complainers.
Most people have admitted a few minor issues, but have enjoyed playing the game regardless:
http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10934
@slapshot82 how did so many PS2 games make flawless cut scenes, framerates and gameplay? Because the developers cared.
The Monkey Island game can be fun. I finished the first chapter but the frame rate and audio is terrible. It skips entire sentences, and requires enabling sub titles just to know what they're saying. TellTale could have removed the voiceovers entirely and had that much resources left to decompress and perform the visual aspects of the game. Seriously, this isn't about the game being fun, or what the Wii is capable of. It's about developing a game with the hardware limitations in mind, and standing by your product.
I'm disappointed in you, NintendoLife.
I watched this non-story picking up speed (I read the original comment in the Telltale thread before it even began to spread), and I knew that the usual suspects would try to make flamebait "new" articles out of a rather ridiculous comment by a programmer from the company (he's not one of the primary creative forces behind the games, that's another thing entirely). I didn't expect NL to join in on it, though.
It was a stupid remark that has already been walked back a bit by the higher ups on their site, who have acknowledge that the framerate has nothing to do with the Wii's graphical capabilities or raw power, and everything to do solely with the 40mb size limit, and all the compression that necessitated.
To those asking Nintendo to simply raise the size limit: as (the better informed) dev on Telltale's site noted, it's not that simple, as the games don't really run from the SD card at all, they are just copied to the internal memory. So, for the current game at 40Mb, even to run it off the SD card you need equivalent free space on the system (300 blocks or so) -- if they just raised it to some figure like 100Mb, the system would need over 700 blocks free at all times just to launch it, and even then you'd have a lengthy loading process every time you started the game.
@sirgrim..... PS2 is actually a pretty powerful machine in itself, BUT Sony made the PS2 VERY easy to develop on and Nintendo has been really tight on how games are developed on Wii/DS by not giving developers great dev tools to work with. Im not knocking them its just the truth. BUT WiiWare has ALOT of releases and some are really great. Not to mention PSN/XBOX dont seem to get the constant flow of games that WiiWare seems to get so its a two edge sword.
@PheonixSage: Thank You
@Chunky_Droid: Since when were you a mod?
Telltale: Have a look at Super Mario Galaxy, the real-time cutscenes in Resident Evil 4, heck, even Gamecube launch games Rogue Squadron II and Luigi's Mansion with their smooth, yet solid framerates and invisible load times.
All these were built from the ground up for the Nintendo systems they appeared on. Most consoles, past & present are capable of running games smoothly, it just takes developers that know what they're doing and are willing to put the work in.
(sometimes publishers are to blame for demanding a simultaneous multi-platform release)
It's amazing we even had video games for the past twenty years. I mean, look at the SNES, a freaking calculator has more power than that thing now a-days. No wonder all the games on it were ugly ports with terrible gameplay, graphics, and sound issues.
...Oh wait.
@dimlylitmonkey - you mentioned all disc based games. Why?
Start comparing Monkey Island to other Wiiware titles, and what sort of game you get for you money there. Pokemon Ranch, Aquarium, Beer Toss, Catch. Fun Fun Minigolf...
Yes, the 2D games without full voice are often amazing. But Telltale are pushing the boundaries of what can be delivered in 40MB. 3D environments, hi res Polys, textures, hours of dialogue. It's not perfect, agreed, but it's a start, and I dare say a lot more fun than a good number of other Wiiware titles.
Perhaps they would have been better to go the Sam & Max route, and only release as a disc, but lets give them a few more episodes to perhaps scale back some of the textures / models etc and see if they can up the framerate and reduce the audio compressio and better optimise the game for Wiiware.
"But Telltale are pushing the boundaries of what can be delivered in 40MB"
Then again Telltale games is saying the Wii as a whole, is less powerful than the iphone when they've only developed one game for the system and its on Wiiware. So, in my opinion their pretty ignorant.
i know that the wii is underpowered in graphics but i wont believe that the iphone is a lot more powerful at this point any love or like for that developer is gone and i wont support them or buy there games
One developer, (not a company senior, or "Telltale Games") has made a comment on their forum. It's not like some sort of offical statement put out in a press release. And how do you know Telltale aren't also working on iPhone ports of their games?
Are you saying that the iPhone definitely isn't more powerful than a Wii? I guess it's how you define 'powerful', but I dare say a game programmer has a bit of inside information, and I don't know why people are taking this as some sort of personal insult. What's your experience in developing for both (or either) platforms?
@jp-30: Actually, Metroid 3 has a ton of dialog. But that's beside the point.
He's saying the Wii itself is less powerful than an iPhone, which is flat out wrong. If the issue is the download size limitation (which would require more compression for larger titles), why not complain about that other than the power of the console itself?
@pixelman
You took every individual word right out of my mouth
sound like somebody is blaming the console for his own mistakes
I just love the pitchfork that I purchased from the local ZERO's Torch Emporium
OK, how are you defining power?
Processor speed? RAM size, Storage size? Screen resolution? FPS.
It just seems most people are geting worked up over (as has been said before) a non story.
This is interesting, on a slightly tangental note:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/07/30/nintendo_warns_iphone_may_damage_its_sales.html
pffft blaming the Wii?i don't think this guy ever saw any of the many other games out there for retail and WiiWare that look way better than their game and yet ran a whole lot more smoothly
@Koto, which Telltale games have you played on your Wii?
@jp-30: I think it's safe to say the Wii has more power than the iPhone. If you compare Mario Galaxy with Supercross 2, the Wii clearly wins. If you know of a better graphical showcase for the iPhone, please share.
I admit that I don't know the specs for the iPhone or Wii, but to even suggest that the Wii is inferior the iPhone is laughable.
So you're basing your opinions on 2 comparing two screenshots? LOL.
I really do give up.
I'm downloading ToMI Ep 1 now, it's just been released in my region.
No, I was giving a simple example of the Wii's graphical superiority, and even asked you for a better iPhone screenshot.
Do you honestly think Mario Galaxy could run on an iPhone, and look better than it does on Wii?
I wonder if this story will have any impact on Monkey Island's sales on next week's WiiWare chart?
Oh no you didn't!
A somewhat idiotic comment isn't it?
I mean even if the iPhone is as powerful as the Wii. In no way it can compare a game such as Monkey Island plays better on it than the Wii.
Maybe he's trying to wind us up with that sentence since I don't 100% believe his statement.
Monkey Island sucks anyway, it's not like an Incoming! programmer is givving us crap right?
I find adventure games boring. Just because this guy can't program won't hurt my feelings any.
Power has so many definitions but the iPhone has better internet capabilities and storage and I think RAM speed. Doubt it could run Galaxy but this article was related to WiiWare and mostly its the size limit on the games thats the problem and not the Wii. If devs werent having to cram so much into such a small space it wouldnt be a prob at all. Goes back to my previous comment of Nintendo causing their own problems not the system.
What a jerk. Probably got himself killed in Final Fantasy, or cant aim in onslaught, so he's looking for something to blame. "Yo man, i did not just die there, that was total lag". Just like XBox live.
PhoenixSage is still rioting. He's quite enjoying it, actually.
No problem, Bahamut ZERO. Was that natural-sounding enough? I wanted to make sure it didn't look like blatant advertisement on my part, and I think I did quite a good job. I also know I'm not the most appealing spokesperson in the world, but any advertisement helps, amirite?
I can't name a single game I own that has lag and crappy sound such as Monkey Island. It was a complete waste of $10 on my part. It's unplayable. LEGO Star Wars runs perfectly and it's more detailed than Monkey Island. This guy is on crack and because of him I'm not going to buy the PC version like I wanted to do ... not because I'm a Wii fanboy, but because it's obvious they are trying to cover their crap using stupid argument that don't hold water.
Oh, so you have LEGO Star Wars on Wiiware?
I'm playing TOMI (PAL version) now, and it's absolutely fine. One of the best Wiiware games I've played, cetainly the best non-2D game on the service.
"This guy is on crack and because of him I'm not going to buy the PC version like I wanted to do "
That is so unbelievably daft, I do not know where to even begin.
Lego Star Wars on Wiiware?? I think the general comment of the guy was that Wii had slow downs in every game and not just Wiiware.
"That is so unbelievably daft, I do not know where to even begin."
It's my choice, and my principles, who the hell are you to judge me? I'm not forcing you on my boat, go away.
Well, what Telltale said is a bunch of @##$#$%^, and I think I will not buy Tales of Monkey Island on WiiWare.
No, he said couldn't think of any console game that is totally free from lag;
"I'm having a hard time thinking of a Wii (or any console) title that is free from lag. Most games are more action-oriented, though, and their slowdowns usually happen during intense, action-packed moments and wind up looking unintentionally cinematic. "
He's obviously referring to lag from a programming viewpoint, where slowdown in processor speed needs to be considered during development so as to try and deliver the smoothest gameplay to the end user.
But I guess now Xbox fans ought to boycott Telltale too, because that one developer said something that may put their console into disrepute too?
This guy is an idiot. The Wii has tons more power than the iPhone. I bet the iPhone could not run Super Mario Galaxy, Twilight Princess, and Super Smash Brothers Brawl. This guy is speaking a bunch of bull chips!
pitchfork ready! i has a torch too!
For those interested in continued discussion from Telltale on the issues faced in making Wiiware titles, you may be interested in this that was subsequently posted by one of the QA leads;
http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=173147&postcount=16
I'll write Nintendo an e-mail asking they let TTG fix it on the first episode. I'm definitely willing to wait to see if it's resolved in 102, and will give them a chance. I won't be downloading it immediately. However the statements Yare made were stupid, and I hope they muffle him in the future.
I also hope Nintendo Life reviews the game based on the WiiWare version next time, and not the PC.
Also, I still believe this is something that should have been addressed in testing, and not after complaints.
I don't have a pitchfork. All I gots is this spork.
But seriously. This guy needs to be punched. Or stabbed with a spork...like really hard, so it would feel like a punch, but spikier.
The standard iPhone has half the resolution, half the processing power but twice the RAM of the Wii. The 3GS on the other hand has four times the RAM and the same sort of processing power. If we are talking just about framerate then clearly the iPhone has the upper hand especially if they need a lot of RAM.
Having said that.... if I wanted to get a console that could do decent framerates and had crazy specs I would have got a PS3. But I didn't because that's not why I enjoy games.
Also note that (at least where I live) if you buy anything but an 8GB Touch the Touch/iPhone costs more than the Wii. Its also not a gaming device primarily and as such doesn't have any buttons. Its its not competing with the Wii its competing with the DS and while it may be my personal opinion I think the DS is a better gaming device... /2cents
@Bahumut ZERO: Since yesterday, I wrote this article.
@warioswoods: I know there are plenty of intelligent people who come to this site, and obviously this has made some interesting discussion, most notably from jp-30 (which by the way, Sam & Max is disc based and apparently suffers lag too). and Pixelman, I'm sorry that I've upset you with this piece, and I will endeavour to make these articles as unbiased as possible, there is a learning curve and I appreciate any feedback I receive. IGN reported this also and I feel they were more biased against him than I was, and they get paid
As jp-30 stated, he did state some facts, for instance the iPhone does have more RAM. I think he made that comment out of frustration more than anything though, and personally I don't think you'll be getting even some WiiWare games like Onslaught or My Life as a King working awesomely on an iPhone (impractibility with the controls aside).
I have the Wii Sam & Max. The sound is good, but the audio does skip at some points, and there are horrible lags sometimes. Some of which cause the game to freeze!
I know they can do better though. SBCG4AP was (mostly) perfect!
@skywake.... nicely stated. I own a PS3 as well, well dont own a Wii anymore, bought it on day one and after the casual thing moved on but I will prob always play my Nintendo handheld and past consoles. DS is simply prob the best system of all time in my opinion and its very underpowered. iPhone is just that a phone with gaming opportunities. I dont own one and if I did I wouldnt use it for gaming purposes.
@chunky_droid Sam & Max has a bit of stuttering on the car driving minigames, other than that the games on a whole are great. I have them on both PC and Wii, and the Wii version is very close to the PC in terms of quality, and better in terms of controls. The Wiiware Monkey Island is completely playable, even though it's obviously not as polished graphically or with the same quality of voices as the PC version. But neither on my setup, were anything approaching making the game unplayable.
I just hope the people bemoaning the 'awful port' of Monkey Island have actually played it, rather than just repeating what a couple of others have said across internet forums. Because for me it looks like a Wiiware classic already. Seems most people were expecting a disc-quality port from a 40MB Wiiware game, but hopefully an uncompressed version of the season will end up on disc at retail in the future.
People comparing the look and framerate of LEGO Star Wars or Metroid or Galaxy or whatever to a Wiiware game is incredibly sad to read over and over and just shows how little people comprehend about what's happening with asset decompression at runtime and that there's a fundamental difference between disc games and wiiware games.
Also, I'd say very few people have read the entire thread at Telltale Games forums to see Yare's comments in context. No link was provided in the original article here to the actual forum thread or post, which is kinda lazy.
Nor are any of the people commenting here that Yare is an idiot actually developers (I would imagine, correct me if I'm wrong), yet think they know more than an actual game programmer because (for example) a Nintendo SMGalaxy screenshot looks nicer that a screenshot from a 3rd party game developed for an older generation iPhone.
Was Yare's iPhone comment necessary? No, definitely not, it was a heat of the moment frustrated ouburst and it could definitely have been worded better. But it wasn't some sort of official Telltale Company statement either, so people have been blowing it way out of proportion. And even if someone says 'My toaster is better than a Wii", so what? It's not like Yare ran over your cat.
But the saddest thing is people boycotting Telltale products (which are all rather wonderful and lovingly compiled by an independant developer who has led the way with episodic distribution and tapping into top quality licences and treating them with the respect those licences deserve). Saying Telltale don't care about the Wii or calling their products substandard simply because one engineer (who isn't even on the Monkey Island team, I have read somewhere) said the Wii's specs don't stack up against another piece of hardware is ludicrous. And teh statement, at least in part or from certain points of view is an undeniable truth. The console is 3 or so years old now, and the 3GS iPhone is pretty new.
The hate and spite and overreaction seen here has finally opened my eyes to the ugly 'group mentality' of rabid fanboyism. And frankly that's what's upsetting, Not the quality of the original article.
Someone that I expected fully to come back and say the game is fine and works normally because it's easier than admitting problems? Gee, I never seen that coming hours ago! Hell, even I can admit giving 102 a second chance if they fix and admit problems. Yare, is still a moron and should be muffled in the corporate world. I know how it is when speaking for my company, and all of it needs to be professional or approved by superiors.
Or maybe I came back to say the game is fine for a Wiiware title, because it is.
@sirgrim "Hell, even I can admit giving 102 a second chance if they fix and admit problems."
I posted this link earlier.
http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=173147&postcount=16
I hope they fixed the PAL version for you. The game itself can be fun, but a blind person would even know there's problems.
jp-30, you seem to forget that we live in the hideous "Age of Entitlement", where consumers expect perfection from all things..... or at the very least.... free warranty service three years after their warranty has expired.
As a Wii, 360 and PC owner, I say meh. On the one hand, I personally feel game developers have grown lazy in recent years (I blame Microsoft and DirectX). On the other hand, I feel consumers walk around with their expectations set somewhere above cloud level (a side effect of my job). So in my eyes, Telltale Games failed their target audience as much as the target audience failed Telltale.
And in the end.... Balance is achieved, all parties involved react as expected, I shrug and walk away muttering "meh".
"an iPhone is much more powerful than a Wii"?, oh man, that 's a major insult.
I have an idea. If the console isn't good enough for your game, don't release it. Anyone want to hire me? I'm full of ideas like this.
Here's another one, pro bono: If you're too stupid not to realize this, at least don't complain about it publicly after the fact.
Never let a programmer speak to the community. Only community managers and false prophets.
He (or they) can't program, that's it. If they actually made some effort with Monkey Island it would have been no problem but as we've seen there is problems. If they thought that the Wii was so underpowered why release the game on that platform in the first place?
You honestly think there was "no effort" to squeeze all that content into the 40 MB limit?
@jp-30 : The fact that you even defend yourself and try to say we are being selfish for our comments suggest to me that you are the kind of person that will take anything from anyone and like it. This baffles me to no end how someone can just take a punch in the face and be fine with it while his nose bleeds.
Again, I have seen no Wiiware game or Wii game that has all the problems Monkey Island has. I work in Graphic design and I've participated in a number of media projects involved Flash for the web that required compression. We can turn a 10meg sound file and tone it down to 200kb sound file and still get good quality out of it, much better than what Telltales has done. No effort was done to preserve to quality for the Wiiware version. They all went "hey let's compress it", "nothing we can".
I'm astounded that your eyes are blinded to the facts.
I've played iPhone apps, and I've played Wii games. I've also used the iPhone's excuse for a tilt sensor. I'll keep my respective Nintendo products, thank you very much.
Not that anything would make we want to purchase anything that shares its genre with King's Quest....those games redefined dull IMO--at least Quest For Glory had a battle system...
So, just wondering, is the review team here at NL redoing the review? Seeing as how you reviewed the computer version. It seems like it's bad enough to do so by some peoples comments.
Let me tell you my perspective of this:
The "wii" and the "iphone" is a specification(spec). A spec tells me, that I have this or that cpu, gpu, ram, etc. Nothing more, nothing less.
If someone wants to develop a game with this spec, the costumer can be sure, that it WILL work with that spec. If it doesn't work, he will get his money back. That's it.
Telling the customer, that an other spec works better, is the worst thing someone can do. That will tell the customer two things:
Point 1: A spec exists before and after the development of a game. You can't change it. Working outside of it, means fail. Simple as that.
Point 2: The customer is never wrong! He is not interested in the developers favourite spec, the more powerful spec or the development problems. Nothing of this is important. If the developer tells the customer, that he don't like a(/his) spec, the customer won't buy the game and even boycott all games from the whole company, because he lost trust in the company.
This, joined with all other negativity in media lately sure puts beads of sweat in Wii owners forehead. No need to boycott, these comments will eventually make sure of slowing sales. There was only need to rant Wii's download sizes, othervise Wii's resources are plentiful as seen in many GC-games.
I was going to buy this to support Tell Tale, this possibly recovering genre and especially the Monkey Island in living room. Despite the lag, I thought couch and controls would make it more enjoyable and hometheatre would make even the broken(?) sounds sound more enjoyable than my computer speakers.
Surely the tech specs of the Wii are better than the iPhone.
Edit: I guess it's not as clear cut as I thought!
I'm just amazed that it's even possible to compare a mobile phone to the Wii!
Just shows how truly underpowered the Wii really is this gen!
the newest iphone has double cpu power and 4x more ram than Wii.
"Just shows how truly underpowered the Wii really is this gen!"
Thanks Tell Tale that this has now become a general assumption. That is Why there is boycotts. These comments damage our chances to get proper game support.
This is only the opinion of a single programmer, and unless you're a Nintendo fanboy there is no reason to care about what he says. In any case, this will not at all make me less of a fan of Telltale's games.
All these comments alarmed me a little.
But what the hell, it's Monkey Island on my Wii!
It can only be goodness, so I get it anyway.
I just hope - if the framerate is really too slow,
and if it's true that the game freezes, then -
it should get an update on the Wii Shop, please.
I don't care what individual bad mood developers say,
I let the games speak for themselves.
It's out today in Europe and I'm getting some points ready
this afternoon. Can't wait to try it.
@Aardvark Soup: Err, thats the worst argument I ever read. The game was ported badly. No attention was given to it other than "let's compress it". The argument isn't even about the Wii being underpowered, you are totally missing the point.
This is about common sense. I cannot support a developer ... yes ... I blame Telltales, because whoever makes a comment, it always reflects back at the company, no manner who you are in the building. We've fired people at my work place for making the company look bad for far less than this.
"...and their popularity doesn't remove the hardware limitations."
Did I miss something? Was that EVER true?
@ Jon (#90):
Have you seen SBCG4AP? The Brothers Chap's Flash stuff looks incredible compared to TellTale's WiiWare games.
@ i8cookie (#8):
Thank you for not saying it was a "mute point"! Far too few people that know how to speak properly.
I don't like anyone slagging of the Wii. I haven't downloaded monkey's island, I know you guys gave it a good review but to me it looks crap. Plus who are Telltale Games? Seriously? Did they ever make a good game?
A port of a PC game lags on the Wii. Big surprise.
Let's compare an early 3-D WiiWare game to this one.
My Life As A King vs. this game. It's obvious that MLAAK looks better and runs with no lag. Telltale is just lazy. Also, MLAAK was an early WiiWare game, so the devs had no experience with the dev tools. You've had over a year to understand the platform, now just get it right, it only took Square a month or so.
The person who said this probably won't be paid, because we all know about the WiiWare sales cap, right? Well, who are the majority of people on WiiWare, us, the real Ninty fans that know about every feature. The same people reading about this, and as fans we are insulted, so sales of the game will sink.
I don't have a pitchfork but I do have a love for nintendo ( and if that doesn't work they can get taste of Uzi ) EAT LEAD IPHONE!!!!!!!
so a handheld far less powerful than a ps2 is more powerful than a wii GET A GRIP YOU LOSER
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L-YLsZ2I1I res evil 4 on iphone clearly looks SUB PSP and not ps2 and LEFT FOR DEAD BY GAMECUBE
ashphelt 4 the mobile racer has better graphics on dsi download than the iphone version
cop the recriut has better graphics and frame rate on ds than GANGSTAR on iphone
dsi iphone and psp are all pritty much alike graphically dsi hasnt been pushed at all yet
cop the recruit on standard ds has better graphics controls and framerate than almost any game on iphone and its a ds game not a dsi game
power league
iphone bottom
psp
ps2
gamecube
wii winner
wii is xbox gamecube and psp combined graphically vs iphone witch is sub psp
HOW WOULD ANYONE EVEN CONSIDER TAKING THIS BS SERIOUSLY
also iphones gaming contrpols and stupid single screen dont make a blind bit of sense THUMBS ALL OVER VISUAL SCREEN = DUMB
I don't think I'll buy this game. There's absolutely no excuse for a console game to have lagging frame-rates and freezes. On PC platforms it would be somewhat acceptable, because of the many different kinds of hardware, but a console's hardware is standardized and you know what limits you need to keep in mind, so there's no excuse for blaming it on the hardware.
On a side-note, I finally got to buy NyxQuest, which is absolutely beautiful. OverTheTop Games did a great job on it.
I think it's time for this video, just to get some perspective.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwc9FWvG2BA
Well, the hardware isn't really strong, but this is not something new.
Nintendo faces two big dangers in short time:
Now I dont know of any plan from Nintendo to counterstrike these.
And even more, while others fully support those wanting to create games for their consoles or phones (SDKs, development tools, etc), Nintendo seems to do the opposite with the Wii. The end result is that you have nice looking games made by Nintendo and in most cases terribly looking games made by the rest.
Resident Evil 4 looks like a pile o' puke on the iPhone.
@Ian "Have you seen SBCG4AP? The Brothers Chap's Flash stuff looks incredible compared to TellTale's WiiWare games."
I hope I'm misinterpreting what your point is. But SBC4AP was made by Telltale for Wiiware on the same engine used for Monkey island. It was just less compressed due to the simpler models, animations and low-res textures.
Or are you saying the the graphics/animations on the homestarrunner site are 'incredible", compared to the Strong Bad game?
I bought Monkey Island on WiiWare today and the choppy framerate is really bugging. Should have bought it on Steam, >.>.
Also this TellTale guy is an ass. I already skewered him with my pitchfork
Eh.. Sounds like BS to me, unless he is talking about the iPhone 3GS or the iPod Touch 2G on 2.2.1 firmware.
The original iPhone is slow as ****, and the iPhone 3G isn't much better. On my 3G, it takes me almost a full minute to load up Pocket God, which is one of the simplest games I have. I'm sure the DS or Wii could load it in less than a second.
In terms of power:
iPhone 3GS
iPod Touch 2G (2.2.1 firmware)
iPhone 3G (2.2.1 firmware)
iPod Touch 2G (3.0 firmware)
iPhone 3G (3.0 firmware)
iPhone (2.2.1 firmware)
iPod Touch 1G (any firmware)
iPhone (3.0 firmware)
@ barkie_mailman:
Only because it is a port of the already-existing cell phone version. Plus, when developing for the iPhone, you have to make sure that every itouch can use it. That means even the extremely slow iPod Touch 1G. If it was developed for the iPhone 3GS, it might look almost as good as the GC version.
I just hope that if a "war" did start. Nintendo would show apple that they
1-Don't have to go to the extremes to create a product that they can sell. (im' talkin to you mac book air)
2-Don't Have to stick outrageous price tags on their products
3-Don't need to have lifelike graphics and impressive specs to make money.
Wow, this created some buzz.
Y'know, I like playing games on the iPhone and all, but the frame rate is just too low compared to playing on the Wii, and even earlier consoles, up to the Nintendo 64. 30 fps as opposed to the superior 60.
@jp-30: Thanks for the Sam & Max comment, I didn't even know it came out in Australia to be honest. I'll definitely have to get it, I love the series massively
That is Bullcrap.
The only Wii game ive played whith any lag was Sam and max ( and admitly My Sims but they fixed it for my sims kingdom)which is:
a Tell Tell game.
Maybe thses smeg heads just dont know how to make games rhight.
You dont like the WII? thean Smeg off and make games for the 360.
noone whould miss your games.
Okay, I'm going to say this right now.
iPhone is NOT a gaming system. It's mainly an MP3 player, and a phone. There are some other stuff, but to anyone who actually considers an iPhone a competitor to a DS or PSP, you're sadly mistaken. "They sold more games than Nintendo" for every 1 dollar application they sell, Nintendo sells games for fifty bucks a pop, so it would take Apple fifty of those one dollar 'games' that you guys say are so good. Also, you get what you pay for. Whenever I buy an app on the store, it's usually a load of garbage. After all, you don't pay two bucks and expect a masterpiece. Most of the games are just minigames that you could see on WarioWare. The guy at telltale is an idiot. I mean, Strong Bad didn't even have that lag, and THEY made it!
Well, he doesn't know how to make good WW games like some other developers
i dont know.
i actualy have old external hardrives from the begining of the century(2003 or so) that have more memory than the Wii, no lie
Nintendo should have changable hard drives like the 360 and PS3
i basicaly gave up on the Wii, i only come here for DSi news.
I get annoyed when people call the Wii or Ds underpowered. Underpowered means less power then is necessary. That is bull. Gaming does not require major power.
Its a point and click game for fawksake! Converting a game successfully is just as important as making a good game. Much more complex games have been brilliantly converted to ACTUALLY underpowered consoles... RoadRash - MasterSystem (My fav version), Phoenix - Atari2600, New Zealand Story - NES, Golden Axe - MD, Street Fighter Alpha 2 - SNES. Granted most of these were home ports of arcade games; but that was the bread and butter to the video games industry for a large part of it's life; there is an art to a good conversion.
I guess the old addage that only a bad musician blames his instruments is true...
xbox fsb =133mhz = 1 gb bandwidth
wii fsb =243mhz plus peak 4to1 compression = 7.7 gb bamdwidth
xbox ram for graphics = say 32mb
ps2 ram to graphics say 16mb plus 4mb edram
wii ram to graphics= say 64mb plus 3mb fadt edram plus fadter ram disc drive and better compression
iphone my asssssss
You don't need a powerful console to have good games. Wii proves this.
Offcource it is better than wii. I think apple should be the product of this century and time by time they will improve. Have u guys seen the new apple tablet that is going to come out next month. No. Have a look at this http://www.domesticutilities.com/apple.htm
Wii owners demand demand developers get best out of system shocker. PS3 owners know how it feels. XBOX 360 owners play nicely streamlined PC games with bad controls. PC owners drop the cost of the console just to play the 'new Crysis' with some shinier bits.
Every system has its problems. The Wii is hardware limited (as is the PS3 in a different way). We all want our Wii titles to look Super SD like Mario Galaxy, and yes the Conduit for all its bad art. But not every developer gets it right.
But at least we didn't drop all that cash for a PS3 to be fobbed of with jaggy 360 ports.
and if you want sooper HD. Drop for a PC.
What a load of non-sense. If you know how to program and use the Iphone SDK it does not mean you know how to program with the Wii or Wiiware SDK, which seems to be the case here, These guys are struggling to fit the game into a specified Release Package (Size) for Wiiware which does not now suddenly mean the IPHONE is more powerful than n WII. Apart from the IPhone having lesser hardware, it also has to run an OS, voice, messaging and various other apps. I thing we should give this guy one year and he will tap more hidden power out of the IPHONE and it will then be more powerful than the PS3. Hey dude, let us know when you do that, haha.
The fault is with nintendo for making so little internal flash memory, but the man should not blame the wii's power. For one, tales of monkey island is not terribly taxing on a system, being able to be run on a $300 laptop. Second, a good developer can squeeze a lot out of an underpowered system. Take a look at "Dementium: The Ward" for the ds. There are incredibly detailed, textured, and atmospheric graphics rendered in full 3d at 60 fps. The man can't blame the wii for a crappy framerate. I'm not a game developer, but with so much experience, money, and people at its disposal, I just think that it won't be too hard to port monkey island to the wii.
As for the statement about the wii being inferior to the iphone, I think not. The iphone 3gs's cpu is 600mhz, but only runs ate 400 mhz to conserve power. The wii runs at 729 mhz, definitely more than the iphone. The graphics renderer for the iphone is an improved version of the one found in the Dreamcast (MBX lite), and the dreamcast was less powerful than the gamecube, let alone the Wii. The iphone 3gs does have more ram, but ram doesn't seem very important to gaming. Back to a handheld example, the ds has 4 MB of ram, but runs games like Dementium, GTACW, and Kingdom Hearts 358/2 days with little to no slowdown. The only reason iphone games may look similar to wii games is because of the size. Blow an iphone game up to the size of a tv and you'd think you're looking at an NES game with a lot of colors. Both polygon count and resolution are less noticeable on a smaller screen. Personally, I think even framerate looks better on a small screen, but I think that's just me.
Tap here to load 128 comments
Leave A Comment
Hold on there, you need to login to post a comment...