Back in 2020, a Famitsu column suggested Masahiro Sakurai and his team considered rollback netcode for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, but apparently, it didn't work out.
While we have seen rollback support in other fighting games on the Switch, there's one software engineer - known as 'DShad' on Twitter - who has been working on his own Smash Ultimate rollback network code for Switch emulators, for some time now.
As spotted by EventHubs, this talented individual has now shown their rollback mod running on a modded Nintendo Switch - showcasing an online "cross-platform" match with an emulated version of the game. This was achieved on Switch by running a Skyline plugin system, which apparently allows users to load custom code into games.
For now, this is all just a "proof of concept" and there's still a lot to overcome, according to the creator:
"The video is a technical proof of concept...I'm not saying to keep your expectation lower, rather to keep it moderate."
For anyone not familiar with rollback netcode, here's our own previous rundown of it:
...rollback netcode (as opposed to delay-based netcode) is often favoured by fighting game fans for a more satisfying, snappier online experience. Delay-based netcode delays updating the game state until player inputs have been received from wherever around the world they've been sent, and is therefore very susceptible to network fluctuations and often results in a chugging experience for both players - far from ideal in a fighting game.
Conversely, rollback netcode does things differently; it logs when inputs are received and adjusts (or 'rolls back') each player's simultaneous game state to match. This can result in players appearing to 'teleport' as new input info is received, and can also lead to desyncing between each player's games, but generally offers a smoother online experience.
In its current state, if you did want to run something like this on your own system - you would require a modded Switch, and even then - there are associated risks.
If we hear any significant updates about this project, we'll let you know. What do you think of this demonstration? Comment below.
[source twitter.com, via eventhubs.com]
Comments 30
Wow! That's such a cool thing that Nintendo will surely 100% support.
Now there’s an incredibly talented programmer. Kudos for having the time and patience to work on something like this.
Wow, this is amazing! They said they couldn't get it to work but here it is! Good thing nintendo is very supportive of mods, and everything else fan made!
(No but for real this is amazing!)
How well does it work for 4 players?
Wouldn't the developers have implemented roll back and delay-based code as models, then compared and contrasted the outcomes?
The developers then decided that delay-based worked better for this game
If they can get this to work, then brilliant, but from how the article reads they have a long way to go, with issues that may not be overcome.
I'd like to try that since NSO is a horrible laggy mess that belongs in 2002, not 2022.
And what does rollback netcode do? I've heard it mentioned in discussions about the new persona arena game as well
@UltimateOtaku91 Someone will probably give a more detailed write out, but to put it simply.
Rollback as actually been around for a wile, it’s not new. But what it does is that instead of lagging, it more or less predicts attack and actions, and will show what ever predicted action to the other player or players.
So say if the algorithm products the enemy using sing, if it gets it right, it will run just fine, now if it gets it wrong it will just revert back to normal, and to what is currently happening, so I’m sure you can see how this is better then the game lagging and keeping you from actually inputting, no lag.
And the footage you currently see is a fat w.I.p, so its not really fully running as it should, but it does mean it can.
Wow!!! Dshad and Bowser, give em a job nintendo!
Did nobody in the comment section watch the video before commenting?!
@UltimateOtaku91
This has some more info on it: https://gamerant.com/rollback-netcode-explained/
"Rollback netcode starts in a unique way, treating both players inputs as local (effectively offline) and their opponents as a remote player. Rather than wait for an opponents data to arrive, each local machine "predicts" what their opponent will do next. If the prediction proves correct, then the game plays smoothly. If the prediction proves incorrect, the gameplay will shift to the correct gameplay state. Rollback can be adjusted to very small amounts of frames, so incorrect predictions still feel fast and smooth in motion."
Skullgirls and Killer Instinct are examples of how great the online can be if rollback is implemented well.
@rambler Sakurai & co didn’t “decide” that delay-based netcode worked better than rollback, they just could not implement the latter. Rollback is better for fighting games stat, it’s factual, no “ifs and buts”. It’d be like saying microwaving food works better for cooking some dishes than live fire.
@Erigen not even just Nintendo - as a Switch user, now I am SO going to chip my console for a snappier online experience in a game I've literally never played online in all the 3+ years I've had it.😍
Erm, guessing no one has actually watched the video, the characters are in the wrong place, and the actions are screwed, it doesn't actually work.
@Bunkerneath
It's being called a "proof of concept" for a reason...
@DashKappei
This guy hasn't implemented it either.
From this article
https://www.inverse.com/gaming/smash-ultimate-rollback-netcode-vs-delay-based/
Sakurai states: "we did inspect it during development, but we passed on it. The side effects were too big."
So, it looks like delay-based works better than roll-back for this game, which rises the question of how bad the side effects were.
Maybe there is a fundamental flaw in the game code for this?
Would love to see this for the N64 online multiplayer stuff - specifically MK64
@NinjaSyao But its proof it doesnt work
@DomGC Damn someone fell out of bed on the wrong side, calm down dear
I'm of the belief that sakurai could have implement both. One for the pro scene and the other for everyone else
@DomGC you forgot to say that nintendo hates it's fans!
I knew you were being sarcastic, gave me a good chuckle.
@DomGC
There'll be a version of the game kicking about with roll-back instead of delay. But the disbenefits of roll-back must be greater than the disbenefits of delay.
I'd hazard an uneducated guess that will due to the amount of stuff moving on the screen (like you say, 8 players at once)
Mods do what Nintendon't. Then Nintendo gets triggered and send their ninjas
Anything to fix Nintendo's horrendous online.
"Controller" in a french accent is something I didn't know I needed to hear
@DomGC It's funny how this was supposed to be sarcastic but ironically sounded like you were stating normal opinions that a lot of people would agree with. I was in complete agreement when I read "modders do a better job than Nintendo" and that "NSO is a sh*tty cash grab for gullible fools who aren't used to good internet services".
It wasn't until the "switch is bad in general", "Nintendo is DOOOMED", and eye-roll emoji that I realized you weren't being serious. Sending mixed messages. Not sure why your first two points were in there as if they were absurd. A lot of people DO think that tbh.
@UltimateOtaku91 in simple terms:
Let's say we're playing against each other online. You go left for 2s then jump, but due to connection problems my game was only informed about the jump after a significant delay.
On delay based netcode, the game simply freezes until it knows what you did after going left for 2s. When the game it's informed about the jump, it resumes.
On roll back, the game will probably assume you kept going left. When the game is informed about the jump, it "rolls back" to the state before the wrong prediction and recalculate where you should be and update the next frame accordingly. On my game, I will see you teleport to the air.
If the game predicts you right or if the delay was very short, I won't even notice the connection slowed down with roll back, which isn't the case in delay based games, which is why people make such a big deal about it.
There's more to it, like intentionally adding input lag and combining both approaches, but that's the gist.
@Eddyson I mean the article did say they had a lot to go, but it’s progress, not arguing what you said tho, I don’t think anyone actually watched the video.
For all I know, they might not even be able to get it to work, and it turns it was never meant to be, I’m cool with being wrong.
@Rambler “ This guy hasn't implemented it either.” I never said they did? Read my post again, I was commenting on your assumption that Sakurai could go either way but decided that delay-based netcode works best, from a gameplay perspective for Smash Bros and to make the experience as lag-free as possible; That ain’t the case, Sora and Bandai Namco simply couldn’t work it out to implement rollback in an efficient way, but there’s no doubt whatsoever that given the budget (time and money) and coding talent, rollback is the way to go for any fighting game, and when I say any I mean every. @RennanNT explains it fairly well and in simple terms.
Considering Bamco couldn’t even put it in Tekken7, how Japanese devs have resisted rollback due to not really being familiar with it and not having the coding chops, I’m not surprised. Luckily this has changed and lately we’re seeing more and more japanese fighting games implement rollback and even patching it in for already released games: it’s that much important if you want an enjoyable and fair online Vs. experience.
@DashKappei those it facts, rollback is just better in every way for fighting games.
I was just about to say a reason why it couldn’t work was due to the games nature but then I remember nick all star brawl is a thing so.
@DashKappei
"“ This guy hasn't implemented it either.” I never said they did?'
I did though - a lot of comments in this thread assume this guy has cracked it, whereas it's not a done deal at all.
"I was commenting on your assumption that Sakurai could go either way but decided that delay-based netcode works best, from a gameplay perspective for Smash Bros and to make the experience as lag-free as possible; That ain’t the case, Sora and Bandai Namco simply couldn’t work it out to implement rollback in an efficient way,"
Apols, I think you misinterpreted me a little. That's essentially what I said. I imagine, as professional programmers, they coded both, and delay worked better.
As I also said, this could be due to a fundamental flaw in the game's code.
Roll-back appears to universally accepted as a better option. I'm highly sceptical that that they chose delay over roll-back due to ideology. They chose it because they couldn't get roll back to work as needed (see posts #25 & #18), and I believe that this guy will come to the same conclusion.
However, if he does get it to work, that would be brilliant.
(This reply is really late, so no worries if you've moved on from this topic!)
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